Saturday, August 08, 2009
AUGUST 18 2009 - IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND (PART 4)
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IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - "THE SPIRIT OF KINDER SCOUT"
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:33:52 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Just had a Rambette Meeting this morning - discussing next Friday's Meeting at the Church.
We thought it would be a good idea to 'record' the proceedings.
Do you know of anyone who could do this - for free ?
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-25, 09:39:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:38:17 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Unfortunately, I only have a very early and ancient video camera, otherwise I would offer to record the event.
In the absence of anything more professional, I can record up to an hour of video on my phone, but it can’t be put on a tripod and the sound is very ‘tinny’.
J
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:42:44 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 This Saturday afternoon, I once again noticed a series of what seemed to be gunshots out in the fields west of Aldingbourne Close. After I had heard about 6 within 20 minutes, I walked out in the direction of gunfire.....
This took me across the river and along the public footpath towards Pound Cottages for about 100 metres where I saw an empty van (GX04 BLV) with at least one gun case inside and boxes of cartridges. A couple of people who passed told me that there were two men near an oak tree on the field boundary going south. They had set up a 'decoy pigeon' which was supposed to attract other birds who would then be shot at.
I walked in their direction keeping on the east side away from their evident line of fire and following the machinery tracks through a wheat field. A man appeared who told me I should not be there and I explained I was there because of the regular weekend disturbance of people in Aldingbourne Close by the sound of gunfire. The guns were being fired about 100 metres away from a public footpath. He said that he was not Mr Cook, the farmer, but had his permission to use guns to 'scare away the pigeons' presumably from his wheat crop.
So I suppose the explanation is relatively reassuring but I wonder whether guns should be being used so close to a public footpath with or without the landowner/tenants permission and within earshot of a residential area. I also wonder whether it is only pigeons being shot at - skylarks are common in that area I believe. Is it legal to shoot at wildlife in this way?
I understand that there is a Rusper Parish Council meeting this Wednesday evening in Rusper Village Hall. Does any resident of that Parish Council area fancy bringing it up at the start of the meeting - as you are entitled I believe? Perhaps it would also be a good idea to raise the Homes and Communities Agency issue there as well to ensure that they are aware.
G
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:46:23 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 It seems a very effective tactic to scare the .... out of dogs, so their owners don't use the footpaths in the area, and go elsewhere.
Killing birds - what next ? Rabbits, Deer, Dogs ?
Is it legal ? I can't believe so - but something can be legally right and morally wrong.
This, to me, is morally wrong.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - FRIDAY THE 31ST AT 7PMPosted: 2009-07-25, 11:41:34 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 All the objectives you mention are worthy, but on 31 July I suggest the main objective should be towards registering the paths and helping people with queries regarding the forms.
The initiative has rightly been taken to hand out footpath user forms in the face of the challenge/assertion by Homes and Communities that paths don't exist or, if in some cases they do, by the express permission of H & C - which may be withdrawn at any time.
Presumably however the paths have been used by the public at least since the land acquisition by the New Towns Commission in the 1950s and possibly earlier.
If the public in general has used the paths for over twenty years without challenge (such as the notices we now have) this is the main criterion for confirmation of the paths as public rights of way.
The more people that complete forms the stronger the case for confirmation. If we can get as many of the paths registered as possible it will then consequently strengthen the case for the other objectives you list.
All parties in selecting the Browns/Bewbush site for development seem to have recognised the existing registered path network as an argument against selecting 'West of Ifield'.
More footpaths would strengthen that case for the future.
If we fail to make our claims now, H & C could invoke their threats at any time. If they don't, then the impetus will be lost; people will regard the notices as empty words and carry on as before, but the 20 year period will still pre-date the challenge - the date the notices were erected.
I haven't mentioned it before because this is not the area I deal with and I don't wish to step on other people's toes but as a volunteer footpath rep for the Ramblers Assn I was involved in a similar case elsewhere.
I have contacted the Ramblers reps for Rusper parish and Crawley BC but have so far had no reply, but perhaps they may appear at the meeting.
P
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - FRIDAY THE 31ST AT 7PMPosted: 2009-07-25, 11:56:36 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I am somewhat bemused, and amused. neither the Council(s) or HCA could confirm (to someone I know) Welbeck's involvement in purchasing Ifield Golf Club and surrounding areas. Here's part of my evidence :
1. "Wreaths laid for threatened golf course", Crawley Observer, August 15 2007
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-170004153.html
And, more importantly :
2. "Consortium eyes up golf land for homes", Crawley Observer, April 15 2009
http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/C ... 5171903.jp
And, less importantly (perhaps?) :
3. Gatwick City Forum
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=907&start=20
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=886&start=90
Also, don't forget the Consortium pulled out of the JAAP at the last moment, concerning West of Ifield (Wednesday afternoon, 21st January 2009). I was there, fully prepared to 'do battle'.
There is also an extremely strong rumour - not yet confirmed as fact - that HCA (as landowner of Ifield Brook Meadows & beyond) is formally part of the (masonic?) "landowner/developer" Welbeck Consortium.
That wouldn't surprise me at all !
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD AND BEYOND - RESPONSE TO QUANGO SIGNS - THIS FRIDAYPosted: 2009-07-26, 06:06:04 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Here are a few suggestions as Guidelines for the Structure of the Meeting on Friday
1) To protest at Homes & Communities Agency bully-boy tactics of scare-mongering the public into keeping to registered footpaths, especially in the Ifield Village Conservation Area/Ifield Brook Meadows..
2) To raise public awareness of what could happen in the future within the Ifield community and beyond.
3) To advise people on how best to Keep the Public Ancient Footpaths Public i.e. registering all footpaths that are regularly walked daily.
L
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD AND BEYOND - RESPONSE TO QUANGO SIGNS - THIS FRIDAYPosted: 2009-07-26, 06:19:38 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Dear Richard
Thank you for the invitation to attend and speak at the meeting you have arranged this coming Friday evening at St Margaret's Church to discuss rights of way access on Homes & Communities Agency controlled land in Ifield.
Unfortunately I will be unable to join you as I will be away on holiday at that time, however, I would be grateful if you could express my deep concern at the Homes & Commmunities Agency apparently seeking to deny public access over paths crossing the areas they are responsible for.
With regards
Henry
Henry Smith, Leader of West Sussex County Council
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - MEETING REGARDING HCA SIGNSPosted: 2009-07-27, 11:27:33 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I very much regret that I am unable to attend. I have a full day of engagements already in my diary in the constituency on Friday.
John Healey MP
Dear John Healey - Communities Minister,
May I formally invite you to a Meeting this Friday (31st) - "Ifield Brook Meadows & Beyond - Response To The Homes & Communities Signs".
This Meeting will take place at St Margaret's Church, Ifield Village, Crawley - at 7pm (to 9pm).
Would you be prepared to do a '5-Minute Presentation' ? I am also inviting Laura Moffatt (Crawley MP) & Henry Smith (WSCC Leader) to do the same, along with Philip Marsh (HCA) and Welbeck-De Walden - among others.
There will be Maps on display - and the Footpath Evidence Forms will be collected/distributed.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely.
Richard W. Symonds MCIPD
THE IFIELD SOCIETY
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - MEETING & RAMBLETTE (31 & 1)Posted: 2009-07-28, 12:51:39 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Dear Mr. Symonds
Thank you for your email
My colleague Richard Thomas is responsible for this project and I understand is in contact with you
Accordingly I will not be attending the meeting
Yours sincerely
Alistair Watson
Managing Director
alistair.watson@welbeckland.co.uk
Tel: 020 7529 3800
Welbeck Land Limited
13 Woodstock Street
London
W1C 2AG
http://www.welbeckland.co.uk
We have allocated a substantial proportion of our financial reserves to the promotion of Strategic Land and would be delighted to recognise introductions.
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-28, 01:50:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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It is currently 2009-08-08, 11:38:27 pm
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Board index » My first Category » GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM » Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond)
All times are UTC [ DST ]
IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - "THE SPIRIT OF KINDER SCOUT"
Page 4 of 7
[ 67 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Print view Previous topic | Next topic
Author Message
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:33:52 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Just had a Rambette Meeting this morning - discussing next Friday's Meeting at the Church.
We thought it would be a good idea to 'record' the proceedings.
Do you know of anyone who could do this - for free ?
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-25, 09:39:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:38:17 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Unfortunately, I only have a very early and ancient video camera, otherwise I would offer to record the event.
In the absence of anything more professional, I can record up to an hour of video on my phone, but it can’t be put on a tripod and the sound is very ‘tinny’.
J
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:42:44 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 This Saturday afternoon, I once again noticed a series of what seemed to be gunshots out in the fields west of Aldingbourne Close. After I had heard about 6 within 20 minutes, I walked out in the direction of gunfire.....
This took me across the river and along the public footpath towards Pound Cottages for about 100 metres where I saw an empty van (GX04 BLV) with at least one gun case inside and boxes of cartridges. A couple of people who passed told me that there were two men near an oak tree on the field boundary going south. They had set up a 'decoy pigeon' which was supposed to attract other birds who would then be shot at.
I walked in their direction keeping on the east side away from their evident line of fire and following the machinery tracks through a wheat field. A man appeared who told me I should not be there and I explained I was there because of the regular weekend disturbance of people in Aldingbourne Close by the sound of gunfire. The guns were being fired about 100 metres away from a public footpath. He said that he was not Mr Cook, the farmer, but had his permission to use guns to 'scare away the pigeons' presumably from his wheat crop.
So I suppose the explanation is relatively reassuring but I wonder whether guns should be being used so close to a public footpath with or without the landowner/tenants permission and within earshot of a residential area. I also wonder whether it is only pigeons being shot at - skylarks are common in that area I believe. Is it legal to shoot at wildlife in this way?
I understand that there is a Rusper Parish Council meeting this Wednesday evening in Rusper Village Hall. Does any resident of that Parish Council area fancy bringing it up at the start of the meeting - as you are entitled I believe? Perhaps it would also be a good idea to raise the Homes and Communities Agency issue there as well to ensure that they are aware.
G
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:46:23 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 It seems a very effective tactic to scare the .... out of dogs, so their owners don't use the footpaths in the area, and go elsewhere.
Killing birds - what next ? Rabbits, Deer, Dogs ?
Is it legal ? I can't believe so - but something can be legally right and morally wrong.
This, to me, is morally wrong.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - FRIDAY THE 31ST AT 7PMPosted: 2009-07-25, 11:41:34 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 All the objectives you mention are worthy, but on 31 July I suggest the main objective should be towards registering the paths and helping people with queries regarding the forms.
The initiative has rightly been taken to hand out footpath user forms in the face of the challenge/assertion by Homes and Communities that paths don't exist or, if in some cases they do, by the express permission of H & C - which may be withdrawn at any time.
Presumably however the paths have been used by the public at least since the land acquisition by the New Towns Commission in the 1950s and possibly earlier.
If the public in general has used the paths for over twenty years without challenge (such as the notices we now have) this is the main criterion for confirmation of the paths as public rights of way.
The more people that complete forms the stronger the case for confirmation. If we can get as many of the paths registered as possible it will then consequently strengthen the case for the other objectives you list.
All parties in selecting the Browns/Bewbush site for development seem to have recognised the existing registered path network as an argument against selecting 'West of Ifield'.
More footpaths would strengthen that case for the future.
If we fail to make our claims now, H & C could invoke their threats at any time. If they don't, then the impetus will be lost; people will regard the notices as empty words and carry on as before, but the 20 year period will still pre-date the challenge - the date the notices were erected.
I haven't mentioned it before because this is not the area I deal with and I don't wish to step on other people's toes but as a volunteer footpath rep for the Ramblers Assn I was involved in a similar case elsewhere.
I have contacted the Ramblers reps for Rusper parish and Crawley BC but have so far had no reply, but perhaps they may appear at the meeting.
P
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - FRIDAY THE 31ST AT 7PMPosted: 2009-07-25, 11:56:36 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I am somewhat bemused, and amused. neither the Council(s) or HCA could confirm (to someone I know) Welbeck's involvement in purchasing Ifield Golf Club and surrounding areas. Here's part of my evidence :
1. "Wreaths laid for threatened golf course", Crawley Observer, August 15 2007
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-170004153.html
And, more importantly :
2. "Consortium eyes up golf land for homes", Crawley Observer, April 15 2009
http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/C ... 5171903.jp
And, less importantly (perhaps?) :
3. Gatwick City Forum
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=907&start=20
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=886&start=90
Also, don't forget the Consortium pulled out of the JAAP at the last moment, concerning West of Ifield (Wednesday afternoon, 21st January 2009). I was there, fully prepared to 'do battle'.
There is also an extremely strong rumour - not yet confirmed as fact - that HCA (as landowner of Ifield Brook Meadows & beyond) is formally part of the (masonic?) "landowner/developer" Welbeck Consortium.
That wouldn't surprise me at all !
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD AND BEYOND - RESPONSE TO QUANGO SIGNS - THIS FRIDAYPosted: 2009-07-26, 06:06:04 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Here are a few suggestions as Guidelines for the Structure of the Meeting on Friday
1) To protest at Homes & Communities Agency bully-boy tactics of scare-mongering the public into keeping to registered footpaths, especially in the Ifield Village Conservation Area/Ifield Brook Meadows..
2) To raise public awareness of what could happen in the future within the Ifield community and beyond.
3) To advise people on how best to Keep the Public Ancient Footpaths Public i.e. registering all footpaths that are regularly walked daily.
L
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD AND BEYOND - RESPONSE TO QUANGO SIGNS - THIS FRIDAYPosted: 2009-07-26, 06:19:38 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Dear Richard
Thank you for the invitation to attend and speak at the meeting you have arranged this coming Friday evening at St Margaret's Church to discuss rights of way access on Homes & Communities Agency controlled land in Ifield.
Unfortunately I will be unable to join you as I will be away on holiday at that time, however, I would be grateful if you could express my deep concern at the Homes & Commmunities Agency apparently seeking to deny public access over paths crossing the areas they are responsible for.
With regards
Henry
Henry Smith, Leader of West Sussex County Council
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - MEETING REGARDING HCA SIGNSPosted: 2009-07-27, 11:27:33 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I very much regret that I am unable to attend. I have a full day of engagements already in my diary in the constituency on Friday.
John Healey MP
Dear John Healey - Communities Minister,
May I formally invite you to a Meeting this Friday (31st) - "Ifield Brook Meadows & Beyond - Response To The Homes & Communities Signs".
This Meeting will take place at St Margaret's Church, Ifield Village, Crawley - at 7pm (to 9pm).
Would you be prepared to do a '5-Minute Presentation' ? I am also inviting Laura Moffatt (Crawley MP) & Henry Smith (WSCC Leader) to do the same, along with Philip Marsh (HCA) and Welbeck-De Walden - among others.
There will be Maps on display - and the Footpath Evidence Forms will be collected/distributed.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Yours sincerely.
Richard W. Symonds MCIPD
THE IFIELD SOCIETY
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - MEETING & RAMBLETTE (31 & 1)Posted: 2009-07-28, 12:51:39 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Dear Mr. Symonds
Thank you for your email
My colleague Richard Thomas is responsible for this project and I understand is in contact with you
Accordingly I will not be attending the meeting
Yours sincerely
Alistair Watson
Managing Director
alistair.watson@welbeckland.co.uk
Tel: 020 7529 3800
Welbeck Land Limited
13 Woodstock Street
London
W1C 2AG
http://www.welbeckland.co.uk
We have allocated a substantial proportion of our financial reserves to the promotion of Strategic Land and would be delighted to recognise introductions.
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-28, 01:50:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending
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Board index » My first Category » GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM » Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond)
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You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Search for: Jump to: Select a forum ------------------ My first Category GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM Business and Employment War and Global Conflicts GENERAL DISCUSSION - News & Comment Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond) The Best Question Ever Asked.......and The Best Answer Ever Given Politics and Elections Obituaries and Biography Sex, Sport, Humour and Stories Religion and Philosophies Education and Schools Health and Hospitals Planning and Transport Admin Notices Local Links - Global Links Suggestion Box
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