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AUGUST 17 2009 - IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND (PART 3)
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IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - "THE SPIRIT OF KINDER SCOUT"
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 03:44:13 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 When they mention the 'consortium' they are talking about other landowners in the area west of Ifield Richard W, not HCA. The consortium consists of Welbeck Land, Rydon Homes, Wates Developments, and a few 'private' landowners along Rusper Road, some of whom have already submitted planning applications to HDC. HCA are not part of this consortium. The consortium has no interest in the Meadow.
Anon
.
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-21, 03:45:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 03:45:14 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I profoundly disagree with you, Anon.
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 05:52:42 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Some of the communications you have copied to me make me very uneasy, especially the discussion website. There seems to be a lack of focus in the discussions. It seems to me that if we want to preserve Ifield, we need to start by defining our aims and objectives.
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
That gives rise to 3 key objectives:
To prevent building on the land
To continue to have recreational access to the land
To have the land's recreational status recognised in the local plan
Objectives 2 & 3 are conditional on success in objective 1. I am a keen walker, but if we want to win the big fight we should focus on objective 1, not objective 2. Objective 3 is for the future when the dust has settled.
Taking objective 2 first, we must start by recognising that HCA has the power to limit access to public rights of way only. The problem is not them taking our rights away - we never had those rights in the first place. The problem is that they have changed the open access policy of their predecessors. We therefore need to engage them in a constructive dialogue about their policy, not our rights. We should start by getting them to admit that they have changed the policy and ask them why.
Turning to the really important objective 1, we need to understand the HCA's objectives. The HCA was set up with a big fanfare by the Government to get affordable housing built, and the bosses of HCA need to prove that they are earning their large salaries. If we just witter on about the rights of walkers, they will just see us a bunch of hysterical NIMBYs. If on the other hand we ensure that the London and Regional bosses of HCA understand the reasons why building on Ifield Meadows would be a daft idea, including the fact that it is a flood plain, we will bring them to the reality of their position, which is that they have inherited a lot of poor-quality land that will always be unsuitable for housing and there is not much they can do to change it.
Do you have a copy of the HCA's charter? It would be very useful to know what instructions the Government gave them when they were set up.
Peter
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34&rising Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 09:39:48 pm
Joined: 2007-09-11, 10:30:32 pm
Posts: 554
Location: The Parish of Bewbush Contaminated Dump Village Richard W. wrote:
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
Peter
At Last! Some sanity.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-22, 10:47:57 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Two questions were asked (by me) at CBC's Full Council Meeting (Public Questions) tonight :
1. Would this Council consider turning Ifield Brook Meadows into a Country Park & Visitor Centre - along the lines of HDC's Southwater Country Park & Visitor Centre ?
2. (a) Is the Homes & Communities Agency (HCA) part of the landowner/developer Consortium for the West of Ifield ?
2. (b) If so, is Ifield Brook Meadows threatened with development ?
In the absence of the Cabinet Member for Leisure & Cultural Services (Lenny Walker), the Cabinet Member for Planning & Development (Claire Denman) was asked to reply to both questions.
As far as I could hear (which was very little cos of this wretched deafness), Cllr Denman was sympathetic to Q.1, but didn't give a direct 'yes or no' answer to Q.2 (a & b)
Hopefully, the local media who were present - Crawley Times/Observer ( alex.christie-miller@sussexnewspapers.co.uk ) and/or Crawley News ( alex.morrison@essnmedia.co.uk ) - will report my questions, and the Cabinet Member's answers, more fully.
Top
34&rising Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-22, 11:03:19 pm
Joined: 2007-09-11, 10:30:32 pm
Posts: 554
Location: The Parish of Bewbush Contaminated Dump Village I was under the impression this was supposed to be a FULL council meeting.
Can anything be read into the absence of Mr Walker, his registered interest as a freemason, and the 'alleged' masonic connections with Welbeck Land and the proposed developments west of Ifield?
Gauging the 'non-committal' response from councillor Denman, Ifield Brook Meadow will be developed.
Let's hope that the local journalists and editors are capable of some 'responsible' reporting here.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-23, 11:43:45 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 And here is Crawley Times (Friday July 24 2009)....
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Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-24, 11:34:25 am
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Zilch....except for my letter "Please come and make your views known", Crawley Times, July 24 - Page 10
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JohnL Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 08:49:11 am
Joined: 2009-07-16, 04:28:46 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Ifield Richard W. wrote:
Some of the communications you have copied to me make me very uneasy, especially the discussion website. There seems to be a lack of focus in the discussions. It seems to me that if we want to preserve Ifield, we need to start by defining our aims and objectives.
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
That gives rise to 3 key objectives:
To prevent building on the land
To continue to have recreational access to the land
To have the land's recreational status recognised in the local plan
Objectives 2 & 3 are conditional on success in objective 1. I am a keen walker, but if we want to win the big fight we should focus on objective 1, not objective 2. Objective 3 is for the future when the dust has settled.
Taking objective 2 first, we must start by recognising that HCA has the power to limit access to public rights of way only. The problem is not them taking our rights away - we never had those rights in the first place. The problem is that they have changed the open access policy of their predecessors. We therefore need to engage them in a constructive dialogue about their policy, not our rights. We should start by getting them to admit that they have changed the policy and ask them why.
Turning to the really important objective 1, we need to understand the HCA's objectives. The HCA was set up with a big fanfare by the Government to get affordable housing built, and the bosses of HCA need to prove that they are earning their large salaries. If we just witter on about the rights of walkers, they will just see us a bunch of hysterical NIMBYs. If on the other hand we ensure that the London and Regional bosses of HCA understand the reasons why building on Ifield Meadows would be a daft idea, including the fact that it is a flood plain, we will bring them to the reality of their position, which is that they have inherited a lot of poor-quality land that will always be unsuitable for housing and there is not much they can do to change it.
Do you have a copy of the HCA's charter? It would be very useful to know what instructions the Government gave them when they were set up.
Peter
Peter,
I am a newcomer to Ifield and have been following the discussions here over recent weeks, after joining one of Richard's 'Ramblettes'.
I am getting back into 'jogging', after a long break and was largely drawn to moving to Ifield as it was on the edge of open countryside (and has a very nice local pub ).
Having made several exploratory runs around Ifield Brook Meadows, I am keen to see what can be done to preserve the area as an open space. I think you are right in suggesting that our focus should be mainly on the unsuitability of building on a known flood plain.
Somebody on the Ramblette mentioned how Ifield Brook overflows in winter months. I notice that the gulley where the footbridge crosses the River Mole is also very deep.
Does anybody have any photogrphs of Ifield Brook or the local section of the River Mole in flood? This could be valuable evidence at any future Public Hearing.
Top
admin Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:19:53 am
Joined: 2007-09-08, 05:18:52 pm
Posts: 65 Thank you "JohnL" - and a very warm welcome to you on this Forum.
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Board index » My first Category » GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM » Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond)
All times are UTC [ DST ]
IFIELD BROOK MEADOWS & BEYOND - "THE SPIRIT OF KINDER SCOUT"
Page 3 of 7
[ 67 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Print view Previous topic | Next topic
Author Message
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 03:44:13 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 When they mention the 'consortium' they are talking about other landowners in the area west of Ifield Richard W, not HCA. The consortium consists of Welbeck Land, Rydon Homes, Wates Developments, and a few 'private' landowners along Rusper Road, some of whom have already submitted planning applications to HDC. HCA are not part of this consortium. The consortium has no interest in the Meadow.
Anon
.
Last edited by Richard W. on 2009-07-21, 03:45:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 03:45:14 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 I profoundly disagree with you, Anon.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 05:52:42 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Some of the communications you have copied to me make me very uneasy, especially the discussion website. There seems to be a lack of focus in the discussions. It seems to me that if we want to preserve Ifield, we need to start by defining our aims and objectives.
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
That gives rise to 3 key objectives:
To prevent building on the land
To continue to have recreational access to the land
To have the land's recreational status recognised in the local plan
Objectives 2 & 3 are conditional on success in objective 1. I am a keen walker, but if we want to win the big fight we should focus on objective 1, not objective 2. Objective 3 is for the future when the dust has settled.
Taking objective 2 first, we must start by recognising that HCA has the power to limit access to public rights of way only. The problem is not them taking our rights away - we never had those rights in the first place. The problem is that they have changed the open access policy of their predecessors. We therefore need to engage them in a constructive dialogue about their policy, not our rights. We should start by getting them to admit that they have changed the policy and ask them why.
Turning to the really important objective 1, we need to understand the HCA's objectives. The HCA was set up with a big fanfare by the Government to get affordable housing built, and the bosses of HCA need to prove that they are earning their large salaries. If we just witter on about the rights of walkers, they will just see us a bunch of hysterical NIMBYs. If on the other hand we ensure that the London and Regional bosses of HCA understand the reasons why building on Ifield Meadows would be a daft idea, including the fact that it is a flood plain, we will bring them to the reality of their position, which is that they have inherited a lot of poor-quality land that will always be unsuitable for housing and there is not much they can do to change it.
Do you have a copy of the HCA's charter? It would be very useful to know what instructions the Government gave them when they were set up.
Peter
Top
34&rising Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-21, 09:39:48 pm
Joined: 2007-09-11, 10:30:32 pm
Posts: 554
Location: The Parish of Bewbush Contaminated Dump Village Richard W. wrote:
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
Peter
At Last! Some sanity.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-22, 10:47:57 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Two questions were asked (by me) at CBC's Full Council Meeting (Public Questions) tonight :
1. Would this Council consider turning Ifield Brook Meadows into a Country Park & Visitor Centre - along the lines of HDC's Southwater Country Park & Visitor Centre ?
2. (a) Is the Homes & Communities Agency (HCA) part of the landowner/developer Consortium for the West of Ifield ?
2. (b) If so, is Ifield Brook Meadows threatened with development ?
In the absence of the Cabinet Member for Leisure & Cultural Services (Lenny Walker), the Cabinet Member for Planning & Development (Claire Denman) was asked to reply to both questions.
As far as I could hear (which was very little cos of this wretched deafness), Cllr Denman was sympathetic to Q.1, but didn't give a direct 'yes or no' answer to Q.2 (a & b)
Hopefully, the local media who were present - Crawley Times/Observer ( alex.christie-miller@sussexnewspapers.co.uk ) and/or Crawley News ( alex.morrison@essnmedia.co.uk ) - will report my questions, and the Cabinet Member's answers, more fully.
Top
34&rising Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-22, 11:03:19 pm
Joined: 2007-09-11, 10:30:32 pm
Posts: 554
Location: The Parish of Bewbush Contaminated Dump Village I was under the impression this was supposed to be a FULL council meeting.
Can anything be read into the absence of Mr Walker, his registered interest as a freemason, and the 'alleged' masonic connections with Welbeck Land and the proposed developments west of Ifield?
Gauging the 'non-committal' response from councillor Denman, Ifield Brook Meadow will be developed.
Let's hope that the local journalists and editors are capable of some 'responsible' reporting here.
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-23, 11:43:45 pm
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 And here is Crawley Times (Friday July 24 2009)....
Top
Richard W. Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-24, 11:34:25 am
Joined: 2007-10-31, 11:00:34 am
Posts: 4373 Zilch....except for my letter "Please come and make your views known", Crawley Times, July 24 - Page 10
Top
JohnL Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 08:49:11 am
Joined: 2009-07-16, 04:28:46 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Ifield Richard W. wrote:
Some of the communications you have copied to me make me very uneasy, especially the discussion website. There seems to be a lack of focus in the discussions. It seems to me that if we want to preserve Ifield, we need to start by defining our aims and objectives.
I would suggest that our principal aim is to preserve Ifield Meadows and the surrounding land as recreational open space.
That gives rise to 3 key objectives:
To prevent building on the land
To continue to have recreational access to the land
To have the land's recreational status recognised in the local plan
Objectives 2 & 3 are conditional on success in objective 1. I am a keen walker, but if we want to win the big fight we should focus on objective 1, not objective 2. Objective 3 is for the future when the dust has settled.
Taking objective 2 first, we must start by recognising that HCA has the power to limit access to public rights of way only. The problem is not them taking our rights away - we never had those rights in the first place. The problem is that they have changed the open access policy of their predecessors. We therefore need to engage them in a constructive dialogue about their policy, not our rights. We should start by getting them to admit that they have changed the policy and ask them why.
Turning to the really important objective 1, we need to understand the HCA's objectives. The HCA was set up with a big fanfare by the Government to get affordable housing built, and the bosses of HCA need to prove that they are earning their large salaries. If we just witter on about the rights of walkers, they will just see us a bunch of hysterical NIMBYs. If on the other hand we ensure that the London and Regional bosses of HCA understand the reasons why building on Ifield Meadows would be a daft idea, including the fact that it is a flood plain, we will bring them to the reality of their position, which is that they have inherited a lot of poor-quality land that will always be unsuitable for housing and there is not much they can do to change it.
Do you have a copy of the HCA's charter? It would be very useful to know what instructions the Government gave them when they were set up.
Peter
Peter,
I am a newcomer to Ifield and have been following the discussions here over recent weeks, after joining one of Richard's 'Ramblettes'.
I am getting back into 'jogging', after a long break and was largely drawn to moving to Ifield as it was on the edge of open countryside (and has a very nice local pub ).
Having made several exploratory runs around Ifield Brook Meadows, I am keen to see what can be done to preserve the area as an open space. I think you are right in suggesting that our focus should be mainly on the unsuitability of building on a known flood plain.
Somebody on the Ramblette mentioned how Ifield Brook overflows in winter months. I notice that the gulley where the footbridge crosses the River Mole is also very deep.
Does anybody have any photogrphs of Ifield Brook or the local section of the River Mole in flood? This could be valuable evidence at any future Public Hearing.
Top
admin Post subject: Re: THE COMMUNITY V THE CONSORTIUM - MEETING FRIDAY JULY 31 AT 7Posted: 2009-07-25, 09:19:53 am
Joined: 2007-09-08, 05:18:52 pm
Posts: 65 Thank you "JohnL" - and a very warm welcome to you on this Forum.
Top
Display posts from previous: All posts1 day7 days2 weeks1 month3 months6 months1 year Sort by AuthorPost timeSubject AscendingDescending
Page 3 of 7
[ 67 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Board index » My first Category » GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM » Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond)
All times are UTC [ DST ]
Who is online
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You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Search for: Jump to: Select a forum ------------------ My first Category GATWICK CITY IDEAS AND DISCUSSION FORUM Business and Employment War and Global Conflicts GENERAL DISCUSSION - News & Comment Gatwick City (Crawley, Horley, Ifield, Airport & Beyond) The Best Question Ever Asked.......and The Best Answer Ever Given Politics and Elections Obituaries and Biography Sex, Sport, Humour and Stories Religion and Philosophies Education and Schools Health and Hospitals Planning and Transport Admin Notices Local Links - Global Links Suggestion Box
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